"If someone mispronounces a word, do not mock them. That means they learned it from reading."
Yeah or the language being spoken is not their first one, or they have any number of neurological or physical or mental illnesses, or they're hard of hearing, or they speak the language with an accent where that is the standard pronunciation, or a million other things and you know what you shouldn't mock anyone for this ever anyway.
So much this! And now that I live somewhere with multiple variants of english and highly multilingual people, I'm often finding that the pronounciations I learned before aren't 'right' either.
Yep, what counts as "right" and what counts as "mispronounciation" is much more arbitrary and dependent on context than most people think. This is really important to keep in mind.
@hollyamory at the most, I light up at accents
@hollyamory as someone with bad hearing I applaud this!
Yeah I mean reading is great and important but it's not the only reason people might mispronounce words and it shouldn't be valorized at the expense of those other reasons.
@hollyamory I agree. We just should not mock people in general for any reasons.
@hollyamory ...or else you're just George W. Bush, one of those doorknobs who never learned how to pronounce "nuclear" correctly.
HINT: It's not "nukelar".
Yes it is.
It's a correct pronunciation.
It is in the dictionary.
It doesn't signify lack of education or intelligence.
It is a part of some people's accents.
It's due to a phonetic phenomenon called metathesis that we all do all the time. It's just that some examples of it ("ax"/"ask" is another one) are more stigmatized than others, due entirely to who they're associated with.
You've still got some pedantry to unlearn, friend.
@hollyamory My years of work in layout, production and copyproof going back to my high-school paper made me an insufferable Spelling And Usage Cop.
In my early years on the Web, I was driven nuts by the widespread butchering of loose, looser, lose, loser, its, it's, there, their, and they're.
I retired just a couple of years ago and am still breaking myself of my Copyproof Cop habit.
I mean I used to be incensed about such things too. I've been a writer and proofreader for a long time too.
But then I learned how ableist, racist, sexist and classist such criticisms are. I learned how arbitrary "correctness" is.
I examined my motivations: wanting to feel like I was better than most people. I stopped being smug and ranty.
I valued language for communication and I can understand people just fine.
And I probably have a lot more fun than I used to.
The motivations of correcting people might not just be smugness. It could be an ancient behavior to keep in-groups coherent. More research is needed!
The pedant correction that really gets me is `it's` as in it possessive. Long ago, it was a contraction of `it, his` and you can still see examples of the use in old bibles.
"Its" as a possessive seems so unfair because names and other nouns use the apostrophe to indicate possession and here it is the opposite. I don't blame people who get that wrong at all.
(I know the way to think about it is that other pronouns also don't use apostrophes for possession, but that's not what a lot of people intuitively think of.)
@hollyamory what I find very helpful is when someone respectfully lets me know what the correct pronunciation is.
But that takes skill and empathy. It is tricky. Should never be done in a group discussion, for example.
I have one friend who is really good at this and I appreciate that very much.
@hollyamory Cosigned as a childhood stutterer who still gets some words slightly wrong.
@hollyamory I long shed my urge to criticize this kind of thing. That conveniently coincided with the time I started working day to day with people from around the world.
It's one of the bones I have to pick with ESR's How to Become a Hacker. I'm more interested in getting the point rather than getting the point in perfect prose or diction.
I try to:
I know XYZ cares and has something to say. I'm going to overlook any mistakes in grammar and try to concentrate on the message.
@hollyamory I think a lot of people mock how people speak their language because of insecurity. this isn't for all countries, but in experience, I think it's because certain people have a inferiority complex towards another. It's their only way of holding an upper hand.
@hollyamory as a deaf person, 99% of words I've learned are from books. That means I mispronounce 99% of my speech 😆
A community centered on the Twin Cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul, Minnesota, and their surrounding region.
An alternative to social networks that connected people in the region that have either died away or driven people off with unethical or anti-social policies.
MSP Social is a noncommercial community service, hosted and administered by @lawremipsum. Users should not feel obligated to contribute financially to the project. But contributions to defray server costs and/or for possible future expansion are welcome at Patreon, Liberapay or via PayPal to lawremipsum at gmail.
We financially support local community-oriented organizations. Currently, we support WedgeLive and Neighbors for More Neighbors. Future support of community-oriented organizations will be determined by accountholders, donors and the admin, and is likely to be focused on groups that advance the values of the donors and encourage underrepresented voices in community and urban planning spheres.
If you're a current Twitter user, here is a tool that can help Twitter friends find each other on Mastodon.