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Mastodon.social having open registrations undermines all the stated values of decentralization that purportedly animate the project...

@lawremipsum agree, mastodon.social should remain closed with invites only at this point IMO.

@lawremipsum

I don't think I follow the logic here. I'm not saying I disagree, just that I'd love you to spell this out a bit more.

@codesections @lawremipsum the idea is to make the fediverse decentralised. That way it becomes stronger as the network will share the load and also become harder to attack or take down.

@codesections if it accumulates the bulk of new users every time there is an influx (because of a perceived value of being on a massive instance, which is itself faulty), it will always have undue, unbalanced power in the network.

And its very existence contributes to the faulty belief that massive instances are better, either for a user or for the community.

@lawremipsum @codesections and isn’t it interesting that account migration still isn’t supported 2 years after it was proposed? People looking for mastodon find m.s. and then aren’t allowed the tools to move their account to an instance that better suits them.

@lawremipsum As long as it makes him more money he will do it. Make no mistake this is just another hierarchy

@lawremipsum I dunno. m.s users are at least exposed to a lot of other instances, and I feel like most people on other instances migrated from there?

@lawremipsum If you show me that most of the people facing a closed registrations message won't bounce from the entire fediverse, then we can talk.

If even 20% of them switches instances later, it's better than none of them joining the fediverse.

@Gargron @lawremipsum Wouldn't the simple answer here be to automatically push them over to an open general instance automatically?

@Gargron if it doesn't show up on the instance picker (the policy for instances with closed registrations) why would they go there to begin with?

@lawremipsum @Gargron Because when you google "mastodon social network", mastodon.social is the first result. (And LOTS of people still link to mastodon.social when they're referring people to Mastodon.)

@noelle @Gargron so turn the front page into the instance picker

That the same person who doesn't want to include local-only posts in Mastodon because it would contribute to centralization runs a canonical "flagship" instance. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@lawremipsum he runs a tight ship like the captain of the titanic

@lawremipsum While I take your point, I have to disagree. Although I am a developer, many of my friends are not. They aren't ever going to set up their own instance to try the waters of mastodon.

I believe that having something like mastodon.social is great for getting people on board, which can then lead to those people exploring their own instances. Or perhaps having a developer creating it for them.

Either way, it is a stepping stone that people need right now. :fediverse:

@david I can see that as a model of introduction to the network that has some value.

I guess my point is mostly that there are choices that favor centralization and those that favor decentralization, and having a canonical instance seems to favor the first.

@lawremipsum How so if people can download all their data and migrate to any other instance at any time?

@KatGoesWoof you can't download all your posts and move them...

@lawremipsum Yeah just noticed. You can export all your posts so I assumed you could import them as well. Any special reason why this is not the case?

@KatGoesWoof well I'm not a coder, but I'm guessing it's (1) probably impractical to allow in a way that wouldn't be a vector for DDOSing a server and (2) you can't recreate all the convo threads, links to the posts, etc., so whatever could be built would always be viewed as incomplete and or inadequate for the intended functiin—better to not create the expectation of something that really isn't possible.

@lawremipsum (1) is easy to work around. (2) seems like a more reasonable reason but it would only affect people that stayed in the instance right? the posts you took with you would simply include links to posts on other instances that can then be retrieved and shown.

I'm sorry if I'm talking shit I don't have much experience with social media.

@KatGoesWoof it may be something the developers want to do (I know people argue for fully portable identity), but I think there's a lot of work that'd have to go into backend stuff that isn't there now to make it possible, first.

@lawremipsum forcing people to make an arbitrary decision they don't really understand before they can try out a new thing they don't really understand is a good way to get fewer people using the thing

@eevee @lawremipsum yeah, i've been thinking about this and it seems like that's probably where the balance of the decision is at. way more people will get confused and bounce off if they can't join the most visible instance.

on the other hand, we could probably use more work on funneling people into smaller instances. i dunno.

(and then do i really think that limits on growth / escalation around here are a _bad_ thing? i have complicated feelings.)

@brennen @eevee @lawremipsum Certainly that was a thing for me. I sometimes feel like switching instance still don't really feel like I know which would be "right for me". I do feel like it kind of matters less though — it's like choosing a university: you don't know what you're doing but you'll meet nice people and it'll usually be fine, and unlike a uni you can always bail and switch. If we can present an instance choice in a less intimidating way I think it would help a lot.

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MSP Social.net

A community centered on the Twin Cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul, Minnesota, and their surrounding region.

An alternative to social networks that connected people in the region that have either died away or driven people off with unethical or anti-social policies.

MSP Social is a noncommercial community service, hosted and administered by @lawremipsum. Users should not feel obligated to contribute financially to the project. But contributions to defray server costs and/or for possible future expansion are welcome at Patreon, Liberapay or via PayPal to lawremipsum at gmail.

We financially support local community-oriented organizations. Currently, we support WedgeLive and Neighbors for More Neighbors. Future support of community-oriented organizations will be determined by accountholders, donors and the admin, and is likely to be focused on groups that advance the values of the donors and encourage underrepresented voices in community and urban planning spheres.

Recurring contributors: @hfrazey, @brennen@mastodon.social, @Jennybellium, @densetsu, @iangreenleaf, @britvulcan, @joeld, @yeahno, @paulference, @billmk, @brandon, @benjotron, and anonymous.

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