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If I had a pet peeve that I don't talk much about it would be that I'm pretty sure not even a large fraction of people hostile to trans people are feminist, let alone *radical* feminists, so it bugs me that they all get called TERFs.

It gives being an asshole way too much credit.

@lawremipsum It is not clear to me whether or not "radfem" is entirely a 4chan-generated concept, or whether they just (successfully) co-opted it.

Most of them are defo just 4chan trolls, whichever the case.

@ansugeisler right? I think the concept is/was a legit academic distinction among the schools of feminist thought, but it applies to like 1% of people to whom the label is applied, and the rest are trolls and run-of-the-mill jerks who get value from having their repugnance disguised as/mistaken for something intellectual and coherent.

@ansugeisler @lawremipsum I think that’s actually an alliance of sorts - a bunch of gamergaters went looking for ammo to use against Anita Sarkeesian and found a particular unpleasant second-wave feminist who was happy to help bash anyone with less bigoted ideas. It’s why you’ll sometimes see chan types claim to support second-wave feminism.

@ansugeisler @lawremipsum (Also, there are plenty of radical feminists who aren’t transphobic - it’s just that the label has fallen out of fashion as modern feminism moves on.)

@ghost_bird @ansugeisler yeah, this rings a bell. There are a handful of Christina Hoff Sommerses out there—herself not second wave, just explicitly anti-third-wave but at least arguably in academic conversation with contemporary feminism, and the larger group of channers that cynically adopt the mantle of feminism only to reject aspects of it, including trans-inclusion (e.g., the gab instance)... And then an even larger group that don't even bother to do that but they get called TERFs anyway.

@lawremipsum @ansugeisler The question for me is where the rhetoric is coming from. If the TERF label is spreading to people who aren’t radical feminists I think it’s because every bigot who’s not a religious fanatic is borrowing their ideas.

@ghost_bird @lawremipsum Thanks for clearing that up. It's important to keep the Historical contexts in mind, but I never could get myself to really dig into the filth of gamergate.

Interesting that it's connected to the anti-3rd bullshit.

I usually tell people who worry about "teh 3rd wave" that the term simply refers to feminism today, not to a specific movement in it... so anyone who is opposed to it is simply declaring themselves a reactionary.

@ansugeisler @lawremipsum I was following a lot of game creators and critics when gamergate hit, so there wasn’t so much digging to do. And it was a big recruiting time for what’s now the alt-right so a lot of subsequent stuff connects back through GG to the stuff that came before.

@ansugeisler @lawremipsum pondering this question is why I haven't slept at all tonight

@lawremipsum TERFs as they stand are just channer misogynist-type assholes. TERF crap is just fascist crap dressed up in a nice respectable pink dress.

@lawremipsum I think at some level this has made me half-suspicious of my mom & big sis, who are old radfems. It's clashed with my respect for the shoulders of giants etc.

When, yea, the radfem part of it is not interesting. It's just regular trans-hate. That fits with my evil-exists-everywhere stance.

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